不好意思问一句,方的英语程度与他对韩寒代笔的质疑,有什么联系?
不好意思问一句,方的英语程度与他对韩寒代笔的质疑,有什么联系?
kemingqian: “不好意思问一句,方的英语程度与他对韩寒代笔的质疑,有什么联系?”

考察方舟子的英语程度,可以用来质疑他的TOEFL/GRE是否可能由别人代考(请看首页)。
Epiphany 发表于 2012-3-6 11:30
你认为TOEFL/GRE考得好英语就一定天衣无缝了?
本帖最后由 kemingqian 于 2012-3-6 12:51 编辑
方舟子自称“托福600多分,GRE2000多分”,晓梦说“他出国时托福和GRE的分数也是当时中国区考生最高”。但从上面举的例子可以看出,他连基本的用词、语法可能都没过关。你认为是否可以以此来质疑方舟子是自己考的TOEFL/GRE,还是叫他人代考的?
Epiphany 发表于 2012-3-6 11:47
“托福600多分,GRE2000多分”但英文出差错的人多得是。土生土长的美国大学生讲再流利的英语,GRE平均也就是1000分多一点,他们的英语都是有人代讲的?
70# irving  
人家不是真的要质疑方的英文考分,而是以其人之道还之其人之身,说明方对韩的质疑也是站不住脚的。
施国英 发表于 2012-3-6 12:05
其实我想质疑的是大家的英语考分。说方英语不好,就开始怀疑他对韩的质疑,那么,如果你的英语也不怎么地道,或者还没有方的好,是否有权质疑方?

希望大家都用英文写篇文章来看看。俺英语没有方好,托福鸡阿姨考分都没有方高,就免了。
“方舟子从来没有写过小说,他是否有权质疑别人的小说?”

完全有权质疑别人的小说,就像你可以质疑他的英文水平一样,尽管你的托福或鸡阿姨或英语水平比方低的可能性很大。
下面的帖子来自新文化论坛。
从中也许可以看出方舟子的英文阅读能力以及他的性格。
Epiphany 发表于 2012-2-6 19:33
以上是开贴的第一句话吧。

不用叫方舟子来,他的文章的网上有,你看看就知道了。“这儿的人”的英文文章(不知包不包括你)没读过,但估计不会比方的好多少。

当然,这不是我的本意。我的本意是,英文逊于方的可以对他的英语进行质疑,并进而对他的性格也进行质疑,那么,英文不完美的方舟子,为什么就不能对他人进行质疑了呢?说穿了,方的英语水平,方家夫人的中文水平,和方对韩的质疑正当与否是毫无关系的。

如果你只对方舟子的英语水平感兴趣,觉得这与他质疑韩寒无关,那就当我白写了。
送交者: USTC2 于 2007-04-03, 03:24:11

文抄公钱钟书东抄西抄, 闹了一个大笑话

[zt] 顺便说一下"scatterbrained flapper"。
  
"英文大师"钱钟书东抄西抄, 扮演文抄公的角色, 都可以
同情地理解。因为钱钟书的英文没有创造性, 你不让他抄,
叫他怎么办?
  
但滑稽的是, 钱钟书抄错了, 闹了一个大笑话。
  
钱钟书1937年的文章中的"scatter-brained flappers"抄自
著名美国作家爱伦·格拉斯哥(Ellen Glasgow)1935年的小说
"Vein of Iron"里面的"scatterbrained flapper", 但问题就出
在"flapper"这个词上面。
  
在英文中, "scatterbrained flapper"中的"flapper"这个词是指
第一次世界大战到1929年这段时期中的不拘一格的女子。
1929年大萧条后flapper时代结束, "flapper"就成为描述这
一段时期新型女子和她们style的专用词。
  
爱伦·格拉斯哥的小说正好是关于这一段时期的, 所以她的
"scatterbrained flapper"用得很准确, 而钱钟书很明显不懂
"flapper"这个词的用法。他1937年的文章谈的是三十年代
的事情, 他想讽刺比吴宓小二十多岁的高棣华们, 但他却
照抄爱伦·格拉斯哥小说中的"scatterbrained flapper",
把"flapper"这个描述二十年代的专用词套到三十年代上面,
不伦不类, 贻笑大方, 就像有人用1949年前的"摩登女郎"
来称文革中的女红卫兵一样可笑。
  
A personal aside. Yesterday, to a schoolmate of mine
I showed the Master Copycat 钱钟书's feline copy of
"scatterbrained flapper." This had him, my erudite friend,
in such stitches that a doctor was summoned to remove
them, with some difficulty.

送交者: 方舟子 于 2007-04-03, 04:03:50

最后那一段是哪一国的英语?

送交者: USTC2 于 2007-04-03, 04:39:53

It's a pun (双关): in stitches = 捧腹大笑

Also, "stitches" can mean 缝线.
Plus, "copycat" corresponds to "feline copy"
in the passage.

送交者: 方舟子 于 2007-04-03, 04:44:31

这么“典雅”的英语是在国内靠背字典无师自通学出来的吧?

送交者: USTC2 于 2007-04-03, 04:56:36

Inspired by Vladimir Nabokov (纳博科夫)

Because "in stitches" is a very amusing phrase
in English, as once used by Vladimir Nabokov
in the following quote:

"Upon being challenged to read Eugene Onegin aloud,
he started to do this with great gusto, garbling every
second word and turning Pushkin's iambic line into
a kind of spastic anapaest with a lot of jaw-twisting
haws and rather endearing little barks that utterly
jumbled the rhythm and soon had us both in stitches."Epiphany 发表于 2012-2-6 19:36
以上是沙发上的全文引用,看上去和原文不一样。
上面的对话来自新语丝读书论坛:
http://www.xys.org/forum/db/2/13/224.html
Epiphany 发表于 2012-2-6 19:40
根据上面的链接,以下是全文。

-------------------------

送交者: USTC2 于 2007-04-03, 03:24:11:
[zt] 顺便说一下"scatterbrained flapper"。
  
  "英文大师"钱钟书东抄西抄, 扮演文抄公的角色, 都可以
  同情地理解。因为钱钟书的英文没有创造性, 你不让他抄,
  叫他怎么办?
  
  但滑稽的是, 钱钟书抄错了, 闹了一个大笑话。
  
  钱钟书1937年的文章中的"scatter-brained flappers"抄自
  著名美国作家爱伦·格拉斯哥(Ellen Glasgow)1935年的小说
  "Vein of Iron"里面的"scatterbrained flapper", 但问题就出
  在"flapper"这个词上面。
  
  在英文中, "scatterbrained flapper"中的"flapper"这个词是指
  第一次世界大战到1929年这段时期中的不拘一格的女子。
  1929年大萧条后flapper时代结束, "flapper"就成为描述这
  一段时期新型女子和她们style的专用词。
  
  爱伦·格拉斯哥的小说正好是关于这一段时期的, 所以她的
  "scatterbrained flapper"用得很准确, 而钱钟书很明显不懂
  "flapper"这个词的用法。他1937年的文章谈的是三十年代
  的事情, 他想讽刺比吴宓小二十多岁的高棣华们, 但他却
  照抄爱伦·格拉斯哥小说中的"scatterbrained flapper",
  把"flapper"这个描述二十年代的专用词套到三十年代上面,
  不伦不类, 贻笑大方, 就像有人用1949年前的"摩登女郎"
  来称文革中的女红卫兵一样可笑。
  
  A personal aside. Yesterday, to a schoolmate of mine
  I showed the Master Copycat 钱钟书's feline copy of
  "scatterbrained flapper." This had him, my erudite friend,
  in such stitches that a doctor was summoned to remove
  them, with some difficulty.



所有跟贴:

本帖最后由 kemingqian 于 2012-3-8 12:08 编辑

红字那行是漏掉的。我的理解是:

有人贴了个转帖,名为【文抄公钱钟书东抄西抄, 闹了一个大笑话。(zt) 顺便说一下"scatterbrained flapper"】

第一个回帖说“真能扯,是在卖弄吧?”

第二个回帖方舟子说" 最后那一段是哪一国的英语?",指的该是转帖最后一段的英语吧。看来看去,都没看到方舟子写的英语在哪里,就这么两句回话,就有楼主“从中也许可以看出方舟子的英文阅读能力以及他的性格”这一说了?
我想同时贴。你能不能告诉我你的英文文章在哪里。
本帖最后由 kemingqian 于 2012-3-10 13:27 编辑

Shi-min Fang: Analysis on Falun Gong
  

Adjust font size:      Close Facts.org.cn By: Shi-min Fang 2008-03-26


  
First, Falun Gong and I

As early as 1996, when Falun Gong just emerged in US, it brought to my attention. As soon as Li Hongzhi's "Zhuan Falun" was uploaded by his disciple, I read it carefully and then wrote articles to criticize his argument. It's an insult to the wisdom of human being when reading book as "Zhuan Falun". But since I liked criticizing pseudo-science, I had to continue. At that time, I just took Falun Gong as a school of pseudo-Qigong, superficial and ridiculous. In no conditions could I believe it became so popular. It was said that there were tens of millions of Disciples (Falun Gong claimed hundreds of millions of disciples), many of whom were students abroad. It was reported that, even at the physics annual meeting in US, Falun Gong was recruiting new disciples. Such a counter science, pseudo-Buddhism, pseudo-Qigong and powerful cult was worth our attention and research.

Second, Falun Gong is an evil cult

I agree with the view of He Zuoxiu, who is the academician of the Chinese Academy of Science, that Falun Gong is an evil cult. Generally speaking, the characteristic of an evil cult is to make people to be bad. However, Falun Gong claims to make people to be "good". How can we call it evil? In fact, there is less cults claiming to make people bad. No matter good or evil, the cults always claim to appeal for truthfulness, which standard is different. The characeristic of evil cults is to believe the extermination of the world, and the living redeemer is infinitely resourceful. Only disciples can be saved. That is just what Falun Gong preaches. The founders of the evil cults in the West, which are usually according to the Bible, are claimed to be Jesus. Falun Gong claims to be part of Buddhism, with Li Hongzhi claiming to be greater than Buddha, which is the evil cult of Chinese type.

Third, the doctrine of Falun Gong

The doctrine of Falun Gong, according to its own claiming, is "Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance", which looks quite good. But when you carefully read the writings of Li Hongzhi, you can see that the opinion of "Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance" of the disciples is different from what is generally believed. The word and action are also inconsistent. Don't misinterpret words through taking them too literally. Some reports about Falun Gong are just for granted, assuming too well.  

Firstly, we talk about "truthfulness". According to what Li Hongzhi preaches, telling truth is the priority. But at the beginning of the news conference on May 2 in Australia, Li said, "I never take myself as a standout in spirit. And I never talk about myself, nor do I allow others to compose my biography. I never propagandize myself." This is not true. The article-"Introduction of Mr. Li Hongzhi and His Falun Gong", which provided by Falun Gong Research Commission, presented Li's miraculous life. Introduce a funny paragraph: "When Li was eight, he gained supernatural ability. When hiding with his fellows, he just thought ‘nobody could see me', then nobody could see him, even with an electric torch. There was a long and crooked nail with rust in the wood, and he could dig it out with his finger easily. In winter, the water in the pipe was frozen up. When he touched the pipe, it became crooked, which even he himself did not know why. Playing on the snow ground with his fellows, he would rise in the sky while at a run. Two guys were fighting, as long as he wanted one to stop, the one stopped. One day when he was at Grade Four, he forgot to take his bag when the class was over. When he went back to fetch it, the door and windows were closed. At that time, an idea that he could be able to go into the class was flashed into his mind. And then, he found himself in. The same thing happened when he wanted to go out. At one time, he wanted to know how to feel in glass. As soon as the idea appeared, he was in the window. At that moment, he was too suffering from the glass pieces all around of his body to stay in for a moment. While thinking so, he was out. At that time, he did not know what supernatural ability was. He thought everyone was like him, and did not care much."

Mythology like that, which obviously it was Li Hongzhi who provided, can never be proved. Li propagandized himself and boasted his supernatural ability in "Zhuan Falun" from the beginning to the end, claiming that he was grater than Buddha and Jesus, and he had miraculous experiences, and so on. It can be said that one of the characteristics of Falun Gong is that the founder propagandizes himself, and boasts that  nobody elso could.

Li Hongzhi claimed that he knew the answers to the questions that could not be solved by science, nevertheless, he liked to prove his views by science. However, his demonstration full of mistakes just proved his educational background of primary school. What a pity!

For example, he said, "as far as the present time is concerned, a big explosion occurred long ago in the space of this universe. Today, astronomers cannot observe it because what we can now see through the most powerful telescopes are things 150,000 light years back. In order to see the changes of the present cosmic body, we must wait for 150,000 years to pass. That is quite a distant age." In fact, the cosmic bodies can be surveyed by modern astronomy are at least 10 billion light years away, not only 150,000 light years. Everyone who has been middle school student knows that light year, which means the distance that light travels in a vacuum in one year, is a unit of time, not a unit of distance. Since Li Hongzhi saw there was a "year", then he talked about "before light-year" and "after light-year". Li lacked of the elementary common sense.

He said, "when we actually see things, a person, or see an object's form of existence, the images are formed in the brain. That is , what we see through the eyes is sent to the pineal body in the rear of the brain via the optic nerve, and it is then reflected as images in that area. This is to say that the actual reflected images are seen in the pineal body of the brain. Modern medicine also recognizes this." In fact, that's what Li realized, not modern medicine did. According to modern medicine, the optic nerve is sent to the brain, not the pineal body. Human's pineal body is endocrine, having nothing to do with vision. It is Master Li who found that optic nerve was connected with pineal body, but he owned modern medicine. How modest he is!

He also said, "According to Darwin's theory, humans evolved from aquatic-plants to aquatic-animals. Then, they moved to live on land and eventually trees. Again on land, they became apes." In fact, there was no evolution means as "aquatic-plants to aquatic-animals" in Darwin's evolution. The plants and animals were evolved by totally different ways. They separated and went different ways when at protozoan. Li Hongzhi mistaken that plants were lower than animals. So he thought aquatic-animals were evolved from aquatic-plants. That was Li Hongzhi's evaluation, not Darwin's.

As these commonsensible mistakes, I pointed them out as early as 1996. When I read the newest edition of "Zhuan Falun", they remained intact. There were so many doctors practicing Falun Gong, but nobody was brave enough to point out the mistakes. How strange it was!

Secondly, we talk about "Benevolence and Forbearance". Falun Gong, in the name of Buddhism which believes in the equality of everyone and universal salvation, is not what it claims to be. Li Hongzhi said all the time that he only saved the disciples while others had nothing to do with him. And if wanted to be saved by him, one should practice Falun Gong. Can that be called "benevolence"? He also said, "patients who are heavily ill can not be allowed to practice Falun Gong, because he will always think of resuming health and can not concentrate his mind" and "We emphasize time and time again that patients with heavy illness can not practice Falun Gong". He excluded the patients with serious illness and refused to help the dying. Can that a person without commiseration be called "benevolence"? He opposed curing the patients, saying that "Due to karma resulting from past wrongdoing, one has illnesses or tribulations; suffering is repaying a karmic debt, and thus nobody can casually change this. Changing it means that one would not have to repay the debt after being in debt, and this cannot be done at will. Doing otherwise is the same as committing a bad deed." Believing in that, some disciples who were ill refused to go to hospital, which sometimes caused death. He Zuoxiu's article was about this. Can this be called "benevolence"? He also said, "They will do all kinds of evil things for money, and they will also commit murder, pay someone to kill, practice homosexuality, and abuse drugs. They do all kinds of things." It is usually that religion discriminates homosexuality, but it is rare that homosexuality is written equally with killer publicly. Can that be called "benevolence"?

Li claimed all the time that all Qigongs was low-grade and only Falun Gong was of high level, only he himself was teaching high-grade Gong. Elbowing out his fellow-workers like this, can that be called "benevolence"? Academician He wrote an article-"Juvenile is not suitable to practice Falun Gong" in a magazine with a few circulation, and criticized Falun Gong in passing. As a result, the disciples plied with and threatened Mr. He. And then hold demonstration. Can that be called "benevolence"? It is said that, it was not the first time for the disciples to do this. Last year, because a Beijing TV station reported negatively about Falun Gong, his disciples surrounded the station, forcing the station to discharge the reporter. Can this be called "benevolence"?

Forth, the Falun Gong affair

This ten-thousand disciples demonstration, according to what Li Hongzhi said, was spontaneous, and he knew nothing about it. But according to Li's indoctrination, his body of law was on every disciple, and was watching their actions. When preaching in New York on March.23, 1997, he said at the beginning, "It is so remote that it is difficult to see you. But although you can not see me, in fact, as long as you practice Falun Gong, I am with you. As long as you practice, I will take charge of you, and take care of every moment of you."

Bragged and boasted at that time, he shifted the responsibility at the last moment. Either the indoctrination or the report was not true, it can not be "true" for the two. And according to the report on the "Time Weekly", Li's janissary Erping Zhang in US called the "Time Weekly" beforehand and told them that there would be a demonstration of ten thousand, which made us more difficult to believe that the demonstration was not premeditated. What led up to the demonstration was the article wrote by Academician He on the magazine of Science Review for Juvenile with a few circulations. It is of few chances to be read. Maybe, people begin to hear about the magazine due to this demonstration. If there is no instigation, it cannot be ten thousand of demonstrators.  

"When the country is going to die, there must be evil groups." In Chinese history, when the dynasty was going to be changed, evil groups appeared. For example, the Yellow Turbans appeared in the end of Han dynasty, the Devils in the end of Yuan dynasty, and Yihetuan in the end of Qing dynasty. Currently, China is in the period of transfer, the momentous changes in the field of politic, economy, society and culture are no less than the dynastic changes. So the appearance of evil groups like Falun Gong is within expectation, which also should cause our high attention. We must take proper leading measures and avoid the replay of historical tragedy.

Of course, I hold the proposition of religion freedom. No matter believing in good denomination or evil, it is personal affairs and should not be intervened. But if the denomination had endangered the social order and personal safety, it should not be neglected but determined by legal means. Special attention should be given to Falun Gong's  infiltration into the teaching staff of elementary and middle school and its preaching to the students and pupils. Even  in USA, the religious personnel are not allowed to preach in the public schools.

There has been a long time that Chinese media, scientific research institution and academies become the league of the pseudo-science, clearing the way for all kinds of crooked means and playing an ignominious role. The media nationwide made active report and advocated pseudo-science up to the present. (I remembered Guangming Daily had reported on the front page that "Yan Xin practiced Gong from thousands of meters away to change the structure of DNA"). There was a tabloid on Guangzhou Daily named  "Having color TV four thousand years ago", saying, " Recently, when archaeologist Dr.Paul was researching the interior design techniques of the Pyramid in Egypt, he found an icebound object in the backroom, which had heart frequency and blood pressure. It has been believed to be five thousand years. The scientists believed that under the ice cover there was a living. According to a book of hieroglyph in the Pyramid, an object called 'sky carriage' had bumped Cairo and there had been a survivor, whom the book called 'designer'. Therefore, the archaeologists believed that the icebound object is the designer and builder of the Pyramid, and it was the sign for help to the congener in the space."

The humorous news faked by the American supermarket tabloid was reprinted actively as important discovery. No wonder it was not a look of shame when Li Hongzhi said "computer is the tool of the ET to destroy the human." It is the uniquely strange phenomenon that different kinds of swindlers became the guests of Chinese research institutes and universities, performing, speaking, and practicing hypotenuses there. It was this kind of atmosphere that brought up the evil Falun Gong. The Chinese scientists should be enlightened first. As for pseudo-science and counter-science should be exposed and criticized bravely, never be excessively tolerant. It is time for the media, the scientists and the scholars to expiate their fault by doing good.

Notes: This article was first written on May 21, 1999.

(Facts.org.cn, April 11, 2008)

------------------------

我害什么羞,有错也不是我写的。网上随便查一篇贴在这里,要是Shi-min Fang不是方舟子就对不起了。静候大作,也得洋洋洒洒来一篇吧,我等着献花。不过等太久了,我可是要怀疑有代笔的。
施MM爱抢帅哥的本领早有耳闻,这回抓了个现行。

Epiphany的A Portrait拜读了,献花五朵。以后还请发更多的美文。

在这里,让我也表示一下对方舟子的鄙视,这小子是太狂妄了。
施MM爱抢帅哥的本领早有耳闻,这回抓了个现行。

Epiphany的A Portrait拜读了,献花五朵。以后还请发更多的美文。

在这里,让我也表示一下对方舟子的鄙视,这小子是太狂妄了。